[TurboKits.com]

I'm interested. please check your inbox. thanks!

FMIC will be on it's way to you today Thanks for the order, looking forward to confirming fitment on the A250 as well!

This is super exciting -- kudos to @TurboKits.com for your hard work developing and testing this product! I definitely want one.

A few questions:
- Would installing this intercooler void MB warranty?
- Are there any plans to offer this product in painted black, like you did for the BOV spacer? I'd personally prefer it non-intrusive to the stock look of my chrome diamond grill. Really stands out against dark background.
- I have a VR tuner. You mentioned something about the stock ECU torque limit maps. If I were to avoid ECU flash, would I gain anything from installing this intercooler on top of my VR? How much power would I be leaving on the table if I kept the stock ECU maps?

Good questions
1) In theory, MB can't void your whole warranty over 1 aftermarket part. That was established back in the 70's with the Moss-Magnusson Act and just recently upheld in court by the FTC I think 5 or so years ago. Basically, if you put the FMIC on and your sunroof stops working. It would be hard for them to link the 2. So they can't just say "No Warranty". Since the FMIC is making basically free power and no added stress power (making additional thrust through a cooler intake charge and the ECU allowing the engine to produce more power), it would be hard for them to claim any damage due to the FMIC. That being said, they have much deeper pockets than the average consumer, so regardless of what laws are, if the dealership wants to be difficult, they can and sometimes will. What we suggest to every customer, would be to talk to your service writer, tell them your plans, show them the link on our page. You may be surprised by their response, especially if they are a Certified AMG dealer and understand the performance side of things. To sum it all up, the warranty aspect, unfortunately isn't anything we have a say in and it would be best for anyone interested in this mod to talk to the dealer they purchased their MB from and see what they say.

2) We try to stay away from the lower cost coatings on a product meant for peak thermal transfer. When we coat intercoolers, we go directly to SWAIN Tech (the guys that coat for Formula 1) and do their BBE (Black Body Emitter Coating). This is a coating that SWAIN says doesn't affect thermal transfer and in most cases actually increases it. Radiator paints and other coatings act as insulators, so we don't use them. I would expect this service to cost $395-$495 (they will probably charge $250-$300, they give no discounts to dealers and then there is shipping both ways, plus we have to cover our time). If that isn't something in your budget, you could always radiator paint it and get the styling results you want, at the expense of a little bit of thermal transfer efficiency. Keep in mind, this unit is right in the front of the car, so no matter how good a coating job is done, road debris, sand and salt will eventually require a recoating as it wears away.

Example (FMIC ONLY):

3) Oh, no, don't get me wrong, the FMIC and a tuner are a match made in performance efficiency heaven! LOL. I'd say even more so with the tuner than anything as the timing adjustments and additional boost will cause the stock FMIC to heat soak more quickly than at the factory boost levels. Our FMIC is a perfect solution to combat these increases in IATs from the tuner and I would expect even a larger increase in peak power as well as power above 4.5K where the stock ECU starts to really pull timing due to heat soak.

Thanks for your interest. Let me know if you need anything else clarified :beer3:

 

[gohawks]

Thanks for the thorough response! I am sold.

A couple more questions:
1. So I don't need to get my stock ECU reprogrammed/flashed in order to enjoy the said match made in performance efficiency heaven (with the VR)?
2. Do you have the dimensions and weight for the package, as shipped? I don't have the necessary tools to DYI install this at home, so I'm wondering if I should ship this to a shop directly, if it's going to be too heavy to carry or not fit in the trunk.

 

[TurboKits.com]

Thanks for the thorough response! I am sold.

A couple more questions:
1. So I don't need to get my stock ECU reprogrammed/flashed in order to enjoy the said match made in performance efficiency heaven (with the VR)?
2. Do you have the dimensions and weight for the package, as shipped? I don't have the necessary tools to DYI install this at home, so I'm wondering if I should ship this to a shop directly, if it's going to be too heavy to carry or not fit in the trunk.

1) Not at all, you can enjoy the gains whether the car is stock, has a tuner or an ECU flash
2) 2 Packages: 1: 27lbs, 33x13x6 | 2: 5lbs, 12x12x12. They are very easily handled boxes, I wouldn't hesitate to put them in the back seat and bring them to the shop.

Let me know if you want to get one moving. our shipping manager is going on Vacation next week, so if you plan to order then, please give us an extra day or so for processing. If it's this week or the 2 weeks from now, typically ships same day!

Thanks

 

[jmc]

Our FMIC is a perfect solution to combat these increases in IATs from the tuner and I would expect even a larger increase in peak power as well as power above 4.5K where the stock ECU starts to really pull timing due to heat soak

Odd query if I may...
IATs have a variation time frame and it seems to be somewhat slowly varying (as compared to how quickly the cat temps modulate) so when the ECU backs off the timing is it a fairly gradual event in which one would just notice a slow decrease in acceleration, or is it pretty quick and it would be like releasing the throttle during hard runs?

 

[07SGT]

I could be wrong but I would think the ecu would back the timing off very quickly so as to prevent possible damage. With heat soak it is only going to increase and build upon the current temps without relief. I am sure Turbo can elaborate on this. Heat soak does not dissipate quickly and the ecu has to make immediate adjustments. Turbo...?

 

[TurboKits.com]

Odd query if I may...
IATs have a variation time frame and it seems to be somewhat slowly varying (as compared to how quickly the cat temps modulate) so when the ECU backs off the timing is it a fairly gradual event in which one would just notice a slow decrease in acceleration, or is it pretty quick and it would be like releasing the throttle during hard runs?

I could be wrong but I would think the ecu would back the timing off very quickly so as to prevent possible damage. With heat soak it is only going to increase and build upon the current temps without relief. I am sure Turbo can elaborate on this. Heat soak does not dissipate quickly and the ecu has to make immediate adjustments. Turbo...?

It doesn't happen like a "limp mode trigger" where throttle is killed. The ECU pulls timing degree by degree until it hits a spot where it expects no pre-ignition. It pulls timing down as the IATs increase and the RPMs increase. Now, it revs pretty quick due to the DCT7, so how fast it happens is probably within a few seconds. If you car is stock, you probably haven't noticed it too much, it's just the normal way it accelerates. Once you have the FMIC and then go back, it becomes 100 times more obvious. So it's most likely not something you even notice, but would miss tremendously once you had the better feel.

 

[jmc]

It doesn't happen like a "limp mode trigger" where throttle is killed. The ECU pulls timing degree by degree until it hits a spot where it expects no pre-ignition. It pulls timing down as the IATs increase and the RPMs increase. Now, it revs pretty quick due to the DCT7, so how fast it happens is probably within a few seconds. If you car is stock, you probably haven't noticed it too much, it's just the normal way it accelerates. Once you have the FMIC and then go back, it becomes 100 times more obvious. So it's most likely not something you even notice, but would miss tremendously once you had the better feel.

Ok good at least I got that right ... figured the adjustment rate is tied to the (somewhat slow) IAT delta.
As for your response, that's good to know ... it's always that second derivative that creeps in and pegs everything ...

Now since your FMIC is slightly thicker, a bit taller, and quite the efficient unit, there's gonna be a (larger) heat plume
right in front of the water radiator. For your before / after tests, can you take a look at your data files and see if there
is a slight rise in coolant temps? I mean 1 or 2 F is in the noise ... but 5F and up is news worthy, yes?

 

[TurboKits.com]

Ok good at least I got that right ... figured the adjustment rate is tied to the (somewhat slow) IAT delta.
As for your response, that's good to know ... it's always that second derivative that creeps in and pegs everything ...

Now since your FMIC is slightly thicker, a bit taller, and quite the efficient unit, there's gonna be a (larger) heat plume
right in front of the water radiator. For your before / after tests, can you take a look at your data files and see if there
is a slight rise in coolant temps? I mean 1 or 2 F is in the noise ... but 5F and up is news worthy, yes?

I took a look at the logs for our Development CLA with the turbo upgrade, ECU tune, etc and it's moving up ~10* by the end of the run. I am going to try to dig up the stock runs to compare as coolant temp increase is normal during a heavy loaded run, even on a stock car. It's not anything we are concerned about.

 

[07SGT]

Turbo, in addition to retarding the timing does the ecu also richen the fuel mixture to assist in cooling?

I would consider retarding the timing within a few seconds to be very quick. Again, heat soak is a compounding issue and will only worsen. Heat soak can be obtained very rapidly but the heat does not dissipate nearly as rapidly. Again, in the old days, we used to pack bags of ice on the intake manifold area to assist in cooling between runs. Aluminum heats and cools quicker than iron or steel but with heat soak it does not cool as fast as it heats.

 

[TurboKits.com]

Turbo, in addition to retarding the timing does the ecu also richen the fuel mixture to assist in cooling?

Yes it seems so.

 

[jmc]

I took a look at the logs for our Development CLA with the turbo upgrade, ECU tune, etc and it's moving up ~10* by the end of the run. I am going to try to dig up the stock runs to compare as coolant temp increase is normal during a heavy loaded run, even on a stock car. It's not anything we are concerned about.

Thank you! Yes that data would be interesting to see ...

 

[tvn22]

i wonder why a similar upgrade for the cla45 https://www.amsperformance.com/cart....com/cart/alpha-performance-mercedes-benz-cla45-amg-heat-exchanger-upgrade.html produces no hp gains...

 

[TurboKits.com]

Thank you! Yes that data would be interesting to see ...

We'll get it ASAP!

i wonder why a similar upgrade for the cla45 https://www.amsperformance.com/cart....com/cart/alpha-performance-mercedes-benz-cla45-amg-heat-exchanger-upgrade.html produces no hp gains...

Water to Air -vs- Air to Air, not really a true comparison. Plus an AMG built water to air made to match the performance of the AMG -vs- save $5 on the front mount by using plastic end tanks and we save a few million over the production run of our entry level model. What I mean is there is a lot left on the table with the CLA 250, whereas the AMG45 is already pushing things to the limit, even in stock form.

 

[Lien]

All looks very promising, keep up the great work! Love seeing more modification options for the CLA.

 

[jmc]

We'll get it ASAP!

Water to Air -vs- Air to Air, not really a true comparison. Plus an AMG built water to air made to match the performance of the AMG -vs- save $5 on the front mount by using plastic end tanks and we save a few million over the production run of our entry level model. What I mean is there is a lot left on the table with the CLA 250, whereas the AMG45 is already pushing things to the limit, even in stock form.

Thank you!

And yes the water to air is a nice AMG touch though isnt that water pretty hot to begin with?? I figure the heat capacity bit and all, but geewhiz coolant temps are already in the 180-190F range yes?

 

[TurboKits.com]

but geewhiz coolant temps are already in the 180-190F range yes?

Are you referring to the CLA or the AMG?

 

[jmc]

Are you referring to the CLA or the AMG?

You know what I am an idiot ... nevermind ... I was referring to the AMG intercooler system, and just realized
it has it's own auxiliary water loop and radiator on the right front vent. Duh.
Though now the query is are the coolant loops independent? Hard to tell from the parts diagrams ...
And it's tough to reroute the 250 intercooler system to use the 45 system, right?
Just curious.

 

[TurboKits.com]

You know what I am an idiot ... nevermind ... I was referring to the AMG intercooler system, and just realized
it has it's own auxiliary water loop and radiator on the right front vent. Duh.
Though now the query is are the coolant loops independent? Hard to tell from the parts diagrams ...
And it's tough to reroute the 250 intercooler system to use the 45 system, right?
Just curious.

Typically the coolant loops would be independent, there would be no advantage (more so a disadvantage) putting hot engine coolant thorough a water/air intercooler heat exchanger. Adapting the water to air from the AMG to the CLA 250 would be very cost prohibitive and may not even best our FMIC. I suspect they use it for AIT consistency because of the high boost levels the car runs stock more so than for the coolest charge.

 

[TurboKits.com]

Any more questions on our FMIC? Who wants to step up and install it and put a review up here. We can only tell you guys how much you'll love it so many times, the "proof is in the pudding". Install it and enjoy the gains

 

[jmc]

Typically the coolant loops would be independent, there would be no advantage (more so a disadvantage) putting hot engine coolant thorough a water/air intercooler heat exchanger. Adapting the water to air from the AMG to the CLA 250 would be very cost prohibitive and may not even best our FMIC. I suspect they use it for AIT consistency because of the high boost levels the car runs stock more so than for the coolest charge.

Ahhh so the poor little e-bot running around inside the ecu doesnt get overworked! ?
Consistency makes sense.
When I am ready to yank the front off for other stuff maybe a facelifted fmic.v2 will be ready...